Markets needs to removed from the game before memebers comes out. To the developers you guys did an awesome job recreating this amazing game. but the markets link really sticks out like a sore thumb. Dont get me wrong whoever created it did a great job its a simple interface and makes it easy. But that is the issue its too easy in how it groups similar items and did not exist back then nor is it even needed and takes away from the magic of buying and selling in runescape. It creates a tool for manipulating prices and is really a GE lite all over again. Taking casual interaction away from the game. I keep seeing authenticity is your main priority and this is far from it. Id highly consider taking this out of the game and just having the forums for big bulk buys or sells and leave the rest to the players in game.
Markets is not a part of the game. It’s a third-party site (which just happens to have been created by one of the mods). They could remove the link, but in principle there’s nothing stopping anyone from running a site like that.
The link is right above when you are playing then it needs to be removed from the site. Thats the issue as well created by one of the mods so highly affliated asking them to swallow their pride (on a nicely done tool i might add) for the authenticity and in my opinion betterment of the game.
My point is that people are going to use it anyway even if the link is taken down, and there’s nothing anyone can do to stop that from happening, unless you expect the mods to start banning people because their name appeared on a third-party site, which is a great vector for people to start getting their enemies falsely banned. As for price manipulation, you need look no further than essence buyers in Varrock east bank.
You said it yourself a mod made it so he could disable the site but more likely again if you remove the front and center link a majority of players wont discover it . Heck it even took me a month of playing to discover it. To your rune ess point thats fine thats the hustling in game that brings runescape life.
Regarding the essence buyers, you are completely correct. Problem is some of these essence buyers that are lowballing prices are also creating multiple accounts to place fake buys/sells to further manipulate the market and use that as justification and if they aren’t, it is just a matter of time. So your comment also supports Cow’s reason for removing the market page. Agreed, if removed, others could create a third party site for this but it wouldn’t be as readily accessible to the masses that play the game bringing back much of the in game buys and sells that the original was based on. Most people are posting on the market rather than standing in the bank doing callouts like in the old days. I get QoL improvements with having the market but it does detract from the original experience this Dev team continues to tout. You might as well go ahead and just implement the GE at this point. The only difference is that you can waste less time waiting at this point. If we are going to make QoL improvements like Markets, why not go ahead and release many of the QoL improvements from OSRS? The reason would be bc that takes away from the whole point of this project and having the Markets link right above the game permanently discourages the player from engaging in the market transactions originally experienced in 2004.
I think there is some merit to what you’re suggesting, but I do think you are off base a bit about the goals of preservation. Devs can correct me if I’m mistaken, but my understanding is that the goal is to preserve the game itself as it was in 2004, not replicate every circumstance of the day.
For instance, bots have been a factor in every version of runescape, and although they were against the rules, Jagex has done a poor job handling them forever. Should the devs intentionally allow a certain number of bots to preserve the experience of playing in 2004?
Discord also didn’t exist in 2004. Should the mods ban clan communication on platforms other than the game and the forum?
YouTube also didn’t exist. Should the mods ban anyone posting videos of 2004scape to YouTube in case it gives an advantage to viewers?
Of course all these suggestions are ridiculous because they don’t pertain to the period accuracy of the game itself. They are incidental circumstances because the world is bigger than the game. The online market is just players communicating with one another outside the game, which is a thing they could have done in 2004 anyway. Heck, even RuneHQ would list “street prices” that people would use as a reference.
There’s nothing forcing anyone to go with the price on the market listings, and I have done many deals in Varrock west bank that were not listed on the market and deviated from the prices there.
Here’s another thing to consider: we’re all adults now and most of us don’t have the time to bankstand trying to make trade deals. It’s better for everyone that we can get our business done and get back to playing the game rather than typing offers until we get carpal tunnel syndrome. And the fact that there isn’t a GE still makes it so that spontaneous trading does happen in game rather than everyone using the automated market and not socializing.
Anyway, I think I’ve said enough. I think there are arguments for both sides, but I think the pros of the market outweigh the cons, and that the cons as stated are not as severe as implied in this thread.
I’ve previously asked the mods about the preservation and certain QoL fixes and they had mentioned some did not exist in RS2 and therefore would not be coming to the game and others will be implemented in time as they were in the original so that level of preservation came straight from their mouths so not sure I’m off base. The forums existed and some people do use that there to make posts about sales so I think we’re on the same page to continue to utilize that. I get that we are older to and have other things going on in our lives but we are talking about preservation and keeping it similar to the original. I would like other QoL improvements like craft/make/smith x/all and shift drop click as those would also make me spend less time doing menial tasks and do other things going on in my busy schedule, but they won’t implement those immediately in the name of preservation. I think we can all agree that the Markets tab right at the top of game did not exist in 2004. I agree discord didn’t either but not much devs can do about that since they dont own discord, but they made the Markets page so they can easily remove it as well. You are right that there is nothing forcing us to use those prices, but the reality is that people are. If you remove it, yes people may find other ways and that’s fine, as its not as easily accessible as a link made by the devs at the top of the page.
While i surface level agree with your points on youtube, bots, and discord, those either dont affect the main game much, can’t be controlled or in case of bots would be something again that negatively affects the game. My argument is simple the link needs to be removed from the site because it impacts the game too much and is easily remedied. You also did admit in your post your main motive of being inconveinced and again i just think the game naturally sets up areas to buy and sell and promotes spontaneous buy and sells which i want to see preserved and i argue add to the enjoyment of the game.
Hey Cow, I really appreciate your thought and input. It’s very clear you care for the integrity and authenticity of the game as it was in 2004. You bring up some great points, and in a perfect world, I would completely agree and I wouldn’t have built the markets in the first place.
I wish you were around in the first few weeks of the server, though. I think you’d better understand why the markets were created and why a link was eventually added to the client.
The sad reality is that the vast majority of players don’t want to have to leave what they’re doing to travel to varrock to waste time trying to buy/sell items. And that was clear before markets was created. Tons and tons of people were spamming the crap out of the discord channels trying to buy/sell things. Even when staff made it clear that the channels were not for selling, they didn’t stop. Then I created the markets and that gained popularity, but people weren’t finding it well enough. People were getting mad that there wasn’t a direct link to it. So eventually the owner added it to the client and that gave everyone a central place to trade.
People will be looking for alternative ways to trade, no matter if the markets link is removed from the client, or if I take down markets altogether. They’ll just move to the next easiest way. IMO, removing the link would add unnecessary friction that would just be annoying for players.
Hey BigShot, thanks for the explaination and background on why the decision was made. Issue still stands though that it seemed to be made in a way of convience and if it boils down to people dont want to be bothered, (which i still believe an overblown misconception from the players with the loudest voices) than you might as well impliment back the grandexchange, and squeel of fortune. The reason i am so adamant about this issue is buying and selling is a giant part of runescape before the GE. And it was pretty seemless people made desgnated areas for certain items and kept people on their contact list that were regular buyers.
To your point people will always find alternative ways and thats completely fine but don’t make it front and center easy basically integrating it at that point into the game. Not sure i understand how the discord issue is relevant other than why you decided to make the tool. A new chat could be made for buying and selling if it was an issue or just start banning people from chatting if it became an issue.
I really care about this game and i love being able to experience it as it was back then when i argue the game was in it best state and having a ge lite right from the get go really is a big glaring issue that changes gameplay and prices. Id ask again if you are going to put a log in timer(which i like even though our comps were so slow back then to load the worlds in time you only caught the tail end) that your prioritize authenticity and accuracy which is the whole reason for this project over convience. Lets be honest nothing about runescape 2 is convient so lets not start so early undermining the game and turning this into osrs.
Having a link to a site where people can list offers is completely different from altering the in-game content to have an always-on marketplace that allows people to trade even when they’re offline with zero social interaction whatsoever. You seem to be conflating the existence of off-site convenience tools with in-game QoL changes. They aren’t the same.
And squeal of fortune? In what way at all is the market similar to a microtransaction lottery ticket? This is the epitome of the slippery slope fallacy. Nobody playing 2004scape wants that to happen. You are being needlessly hyperbolic, and it’s hurting whatever credibility you might have.
Squeel of fortune was just the otherside of the extreme to show what catering to convience brings. Of cource no one wants that.
Bottom line is back then we had in game trades and forums. Now we have a market, in game trades and forums used in that order. Market makes it easy which changes the game. Its not about who is right or wrong thats the situation and the link should be removed if they want the same experience but its up to the people who developed the game.
Hey Cow,
I personally believe you’re overexaggerating the affect the markets has on the game and underexaggerating people’s dedication to never stop making gainz.
I’m at work so I don’t have time to type out another large reply, but since you’ve been passionate about this conversation, I do feel it necessary to let you know that I do not plan on taking down the markets or asking for the link to be removed from the client.
This decision is not out of greed or because I want to be popular (quite the opposite, I’m debating removing my name from the footer lol). But because I saw the pure chaos it was before it was created. I personally believe the markets are doing more good than bad and that players need somewhere to trade where they can still play the game while doing so.
Thanks,
Didn’t expect to change the mind of the tool creator himself haha but would like to hear from the developer as this goes against what the experience used to be and if the only argument is gains and convience i am not convinced this is a good thing. I stated my points ill let others discuss thanks for everyones comments so far.
It’s 2025, people are going to find a convenient way to trade regardless. We’re far removed from the times where platforms like Zybez were the best place to go. It’s better that the trading hub is openly available and accessible to everyone rather than it being locked within a Discord. This way, everyone is on an equal playing field and no one gets left out. Not only that, but a lot of us are adults with jobs or families and can’t afford to waste time standing in a bank to trade like we used to do when we were younger. Despite this, you still see lots of activity in Varrock world 1 and I’m sure traffic will only increase with the release of members.
Pazaz has endorsed Markets so you’re not going to hear much different from him.
As a player from 2004, it would make very little difference. If that went, another would pop up. We used to advertise our goods on other websites outside of RS anyway, markets has always been a thing, just in the form of forum posts… but it doesn’t matter how it’s dressed up, it’s the same thing.
It isn’t game breaking lol. Only things IN the game should be exactly as they were, there were all sorts of programs and websites back in the day to do the same thing.
Salsrealm, RuneHq, Tipit, zybez… and a couple others from RSC forums i have forgotten to time.
Point is the defacto large market was never on runescape forums, nor done ingame w1/2 it was always conducted on what-ever at the period in time was the largest third party community.
If you remove it another will pop up. I’d rather it be monitored by a staff member than a random person.